Snehal Desai Takes Over at CTG
Into the Breach
By Steven Leigh Morris
Photo by Kim Newmoney
Snehal Desai is leaving his post as producing artistic director of Little Tokyo-based East West Players (EWP) to become artistic director of Center Theatre Group (CTG), replacing Michael Ritchie, who stepped down December 31, 2021, and joining Managing Director Meghan Pressman. (Since Ritchie’s departure, CTG has been operating with a quartet of associate artistic directors.) At EWP, Desai produced and directed three of the highest grossing and most attended shows in the company’s 57-year history.
Desai is no stranger to working with CTG. He’s co-produced shows not only with them, but also with Pasadena Playhouse, Rogue Artists Ensemble, the Los Angeles LGBT Center, the Robey Theatre Company, The Fountain Theatre, API Rise, the Japanese-American Community Cultural Center, and TAIKOPROJECT. Only the third artistic director at CTG since the organization was founded in 1967, he’s the first to be appointed based on an extended tenure of work in Los Angeles, as well as the first Person-of-Color to lead the organization in its 56-year-history.
Desai is a graduate of Emory University and the Yale School of Drama. He met with Stage Raw on Zoom in late April
The Mark Taper Forum and its moat: looking towards The Ahmanson Theatre
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“So I think we are definitely at an inflection point, because these larger organizations’ earned revenue is a huge part of their base budget, and that may not be the model moving forward.”
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STAGE RAW I’m going to come in as a bit of an asshole, which is sort of my job, but it’s not directed at you — it’s to raise questions. And my skepticism is in no way a comment on you or your skills or ability, it’s a comment on the ecosystem that we all live in. So what I’d like to do is start with the big picture and then narrow it down to actual policies. And the frame for this, just for historical context — you know this, but I’ll just say it for the record — during the Pandemic, CTG laid off 50% of its staff. The Oregon Shakespeare Festival has kind of crashed and burned. The model for these larger American institutional theaters is in deep trouble, and it has to do with the lack of financing, both government and private. I understand, correct me if I’m wrong, I understand that the Taper is going to be closed for a year – is that accurate?
SNEHAL DESAI Uhm, so I will also preface everything by saying I’m just getting in there (laughter) — we’re just a week from the announcement. All of this transpired very quickly, although obviously it was a long search process. And obviously my other goal is to make sure that East West Players is taken care of.
CTG is its own, large institution: it’s going to take a little time to get in there. I don’t know yet. That’s my frank answer. Right now there is programming scheduled into the new year. There had been conversations about EWP and CTG doing [another] co-production that we were hoping to do in the new year, but yes there are significant questions around funding and support, and we’re going to need to have time to change, to reevaluate things. When this happens, how soon it happens, I don’t know yet.
Gordon Davidson, circa 1967
SR: Gordon Davidson was the last leader at Center Theatre Group invested, in any serious way, in the” idea” of Los Angeles, and what that might mean. Davidson was bifurcated because he had a New York commercial impulse, and at the same time, his impulse was . . . before anybody was doing it, before the words “equity and inclusion” were in anybody’s vocabulary, he was bringing in labs and trying to ensure that all kinds of otherwise marginalized communities were invited into the Taper’s rehearsal halls. There was this communitarian impulse.
There was also a commercial impulse, so the two impulses were at odds, and I don’t think they’re contradictory, you can do both. Michael Ritchie [Gordon Davidson’s successor] was more of a commercial guy and with some notable exceptions, CTG’s trio of theaters (The Mark Taper Forum, The Ahmanson Theatre and the Kirk Douglas Theatre) all started to look like booking houses under his stewardship. And now you come along, and there are a couple of open questions: What will occupy these spaces, and why? So here’s a rhetorical question — no, it’s an earnest question: Do you feel that the American regional theater model, as it exists in 2023, is viable?
SD: I think it’s a model very much being challenged, and it’s exactly as you said: We’ve seen it play out at multiple theaters throughout the county. You were talking about Oregon Shakespeare Festival as one extreme; I’ve seen it with my good friend Robert Barry Fleming at the Actors’ Theatre of Louisville — what happened with the [demise of] HUMANA New Play Festival, stuff like The Lark, what’s happening to all those institutions. So I think we are definitely at an inflection point, because these larger organizations’ earned revenue is a huge part of their base budget, and that may not be the model moving forward. So there are multiple challenges hitting us. The other thing is the high cost of production. The cost of production has gone up exponentially for live performance.
SR: What’s the reason for that?
SD: It’s four-fold. One, I think it’s Covid expenses, from testing to understudies. I think it’s supply chain issues, then inflation, and, finally, I think it was the reckoning around wages — fair, sustainable living wages, and I think particularly even here in LA, so many folks have either left the sector or transferred to other places. . . and that [spiraling costs] is definitely not being matched by an increase in ticket revenue, I think what we’re seeing is ticket prices going the other way. . . I know it’s one thing to make sure the art is accessible and to bring folks back, but the scales have gone way, way off. Who is going to come in there? Is government going to help us in a sustained way?
SR: That was the next question, yes.
SD: That is where the large institutions can receive support in an impactful way. We look at LA Arts Recovery, things like that. Are other funders going to step in? And where are the individual donors? We always talk about the subscription model, but it’s become really hard to be predictable, in terms of scheduling. Shows fall through, illnesses, outbreaks happen, and that [subscription] model used to bring in a lot of the money up front to do these shows, but now people are buying tickets later and later. It’s really hard to predict — so much of our sales happen in the last 24 hours before a show performs: We go into a weekend thinking sales are really low, but it turns out great — but you’re like in between, what do we do? Do we slash prices? Do we paper the house? I think the risk factor has gone up in multiple ways. . .
SR What’s that old joke, “Planning is so 2010s.”
SD: I think the organizations that have come out of this are the ones that have shown they can be nimble, and resilient, and they’ve been largely culturally specific and theaters-of-color, because they have been able to be responsive and shift to what’s been happening. It’s much, much harder at the larger institutions where you have more space, more capacity. And now, everyone’s looking at all of that. What nights do we program our shows? At East West Players, we used to be Thursday through Sunday, now it’s Fridays through Mondays. Mondays do great. There’s one theater that does Thursdays, and then Saturday, Sunday. They skip Fridays because Fridays are their lowest night.
SR: That’s totally a contradiction of the old wisdom.
DS: That’s totally it. . . The other thing: What it takes to get the word out, the runway, what it takes to create a sense of event that will get to all of us in terms of visibility and run-time. . . How many shows did you used to see? Before the Pandemic, in a week?
SR: Three of four a week.
DS: And how many now?
SR: One or two.
DS: Yep. I’m the same. I think I used to see four or five. First, there isn’t the quantity, but now it’s just harder, there’s so many shows I want to see but now I have to track the close dates. . .
SR: This is very familiar. . . Damn I promised them I’d get there!
DS: Yep, yep. . .and so, is it that we need less performances in a week that go a longer period? I think all of that is on the table. And even when something is working, again, we have to diversify our income streams; where is the money going to come in, in any predicable way? I was just talking to another non-profit that doesn’t do theater, but they do classes — they just opened up a new space and I asked then, what is your income? And they said programming is number 1, but number 2 is, “We rent out of parking spots on the weekend, and that has become our most reliable earner.”
SR: Is it too soon yet, or perhaps when you were being interviewed, you must have made some presentations — do you have a view for what each of the three theaters would be dedicated to, philosophically or aesthetically?
DS: Yeah, You and I have talked a little bit about this, but the question I’m asking right now is, “What role does art play in our lives? What role does theater play? For me, it’s a community building space, it’s not just entertainment. It is also a place that I hope spurs social change, and that uplifts artistry. What are those thresholds? Is getting a Tony Award the mark of excellence, or is it something else? And I think what each of the venues does is based on what kinds of works that feel at home in those spaces. I think the Ahmanson is a very large venue, it is a place to do those touring shows and large-scale musicals. I think the Taper and the Kirk Douglas afford more possibilities — but to fill an 800-seat theater night after night?
I think the question is — what we all want it to be or to do — is to be the place for newer innovative work. We don’t want it to be another presenting house. That’s for sure. Is it going to be that, once in a while? Yeah! If we get an opportunity to bring Slave Play here — I think Slave Play is a great play, I’d want to bring it to LA, and that is the right of our spaces. But do we also want to make sure we’re honoring the legacy of CTG with something like a Twilight, with a Zoot Suit there? Yes. but we also want to be sure we’re discovering and uplifting the great new American play.
(L–R) Linda Powell (background), Andrew Garman and Larry Powell (background) in ‘The Christians’ at the Mark Taper Forum. (Photo by Craig Schwartz)
And that [the Mark Taper Forum] is the space for that. What that model looks like, how often we can do that is still something of a question mark. But to me, the [Taper] space is literally a forum, a space for civic dialogue and discourse and the play works best when there are big ideas filling it. Did you see [Lucas Hnath’s play] The Christians? I thought that play worked really well in that space and I loved it. It was basically really simple, a guy with a mike, but its ideas, the thoughts, what was happening made the space come alive, as did [Heidi Shreck’s solo show] What the Constitution Means to Me. Right? Those political works, asking the questions of the day tied to identity, work well in that space. And I hope that can continue.
Maria Dizzia in the national tour of “What the Constitution Means to Me” at the Taper (Photo by Joan Marcus)
I think the Douglas — we did Kristina Wong’s Sweatshop Overlord there — the question for me, rather than just presenting other theater companies is, how can we be collaborating?
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“Spiraling costs are definitely not being matched by an increase in ticket revenue, I think what we’re seeing is ticket prices going the other way. . . I know it’s one thing to make sure the art is accessible and to bring folks back, but the scales have gone way, way off.”
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Kristina Wong in “Kristina Wong, Sweatshop Overlord” at the Kirk Douglas Theatre, a co-production with East West Players. (Photo by Javier Vasquez)
SR: So you’re still (if I’m putting words into your mouth) you’re still formulating how you’re going to use these space. . . .just a lot of questions as you work this through. In the rumor mill, and as you know being journalists, we adhere slavishly to the rumor mill . . .
SD: (laughter) Yes. . .
SR: In the rumor mill, I’ve heard that — well actually this is from inside sources, but, well, it was reported to me that the Board, the CTG Board, was not terribly supportive of the kind of innovation that you seem to be talking about. . . Obviously, right now you’re in a honeymoon, and they’re going to give you a wide berth, but is that a concern, in terms of . . . Well you’ve worked with a board at East West Players. Was that a challenge? And do you think that will be a challenge at CTG?
Michael Ritchie, Judi Davidson and Gordon Davidson, circa 2015. (Photo by M Palma Photography)
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“For the Board, I think we had honest conversations about this: Who I am. You want to know what I’m going to do? Just look back at what I’ve done. I’m not changing. I’m only going three blocks. And I believe we can create change by uplifting our local artists. By producing LA playwrights. We can give them a platform so that work can travel nationally.”
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SD: Yeah, I just want to take a second, in terms of vision, I think the other thing about it is, I have a vision of what role I want CTG to play locally — theater is a local art form, so I’m thinking about the role CTG is going to play for the citizens of Los Angeles, and what role I want it to play nationally and globally in the theater conversation. I want it to be like The National in London. It’s going to be now just a question of taking all of that to the reality of our day, in terms of the economics. And this is the place where artistic directors are creatives: These are the resources we have. What can we do? How can we make this work, and also still be in line with the mission of who we are. In my presentation to the Board I mentioned . . .. Do you know about Tony Kushner’s first company, the Three Ps. You know about this?
SR: No, I don’t.
SD: His first theater company was called Three Ps. This was like way, way back. And the three Ps stood for poetry, politics, and popcorn. And I told the Board I’m a three-P “LM” — I would add laughter and music right now. So if you want to boil things down, it’s in the intersection of these things that I want us to be focusing on. In terms of the values I’m bringing, that I think I did at EWP and I’ll continue to do, it’s community mindedness, and the centering of community innovation and inclusion.
I think ultimately for the Board, I think we had honest conversations about this: Who I am. You want to know what I’m going to do? Just look back at what I’ve done. I’m not changing. I’m only going three blocks. And I believe we can create change by uplifting our local artists. By producing LA playwrights. We can give them a platform so that work can travel nationally, as it did with [Anna Ouyang Moench’s] Man of God that we premiered at East West Players.
Ji-young Yoo and Erin Rae Li in “Man of God” at Geffen Playhouse. It premiered at East West Players (Photo by Jeff Lorch)
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“I’m coming into an organization now where there’s four associate artistic directors but there’s no other artistic [personnel], no literary staff, no new works development.”
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SR: There must be reason why CTG has been so reluctant to do that, to actually develop new works and put them on a national platform. Do you have any theories as to that?
SD: I think it’s just financially and economically risky, and it might have been different priorities, and different values. And the other thing about it, that’s really hard is . . .that work take time to develop. It needs development and support. I also don’t just want a put a playwright up on the Taper stage, to put them under that scrutiny when their piece is not ready, when they might not be ready. I think that’s all a part of it too.
I’m coming into an organization now where there’s four associate artistic directors but there’s no other artistic [personnel], no literary staff, no new works development.
SR: Wow. Wow. I didn’t know that.
SD: Yeah, so I need some time to get in there and shape what our artistic department looks like. When Michael [Ritchie] came on, there were many things going on, but I think he came in at a time of financial challenge, also.
SR: Yes.
SD: He made some changes and some cuts. For me, I want to figure out how I can make CTG a reliable artistic home for folks, and not just for playwrights. And so that’s going to take some support. And that takes funding that you might not see the fruit of that support for a number of years. But I’m so proud of the playwrights group at EWP. Alice Tuan has shepherded multiple cohorts: We did [Inda Craig-Galván’s] The Great Jheri Curl Debate; Sumo by Lisa Dring is going to be at La Jolla. We can develop them, we don’t have to produce them all. And I think the other thing is, financial limitations have inhibited even artists dreaming. They want to get produced and they’re being told to write a three-to-five person play,
SR: Yes, yes!
SD: And what you need on the Taper is something a little bit more than that. You can have a three-to-five character play, but something a little bit bigger is a little bit harder to get produced, so the risks pile up.
SR: Snehal, thank you so much for this. Do you have any other comments or questions for me before we sign off.
SD: No, and Steven, I’m glad we had this conversation, but I would love for us later in the summer or fall to re-connect because I would love to, once I get in there . . .
SR: Once you have the keys to the building . . .
SD: Exactly, when I have an email address and a key card, let’s start with that. (laughter)
SR: I believe I’m not alone in rooting for your success. I think you have a Herculean task, and I don’t say that disparagingly, the challenges are profound, but if anybody can meet them, you can.
SD: Yes, “profound” is the right word. But I think for theater-makers and theater-lovers, there’s a shared view of what they want the role of CTG to be. I love the LA theater community and this eco-system. The other thing about it is, the whole ecosystem is at an inflection point, obviously, since everything that happened with LA STAGE Alliance.
I think there’s the service organization of LA conversation, we’re trying to build that out. And I think we’re all still reeling from this very big thing, this Pandemic — we’re still only year, a year and half out, it feels like a long time. That’s shifted things, and I feel like, we need our artistic spaces to be open and welcoming, they need to feel like a spaces where we can have an honest conversation or dialogue, but also to be spaces for healing and laughter. To me, that’s the other thing, we all want to do the hard-hitting serious stuff, but sometimes we just need to be with each other, and to have a good time.
